Beginning Theories

This is to my new twitter friend @atheistcrow.  It started when I tweeted this:  “Ques to atheist-So you beleive its possible 2 live without faith. Can you prove it? If not, u r placing your faith in faithlessness.”  The exchange, difficult to follow on twitter, is summarized here, although I’m sure I have some of the comments out of order.  As I said, twitter does not make it easy to follow a give-and-take exchange.

@atheistcrow -Faith being belief in supernatural held without evidence or logical proof? Yup very easy to live without that.

So you believe the universe itself is the eternal ultimate self-existent reality then? Evidence it began notwithstanding?

@atheistcrow -Hmmm now exactly when did I do that?
U posit time matter energy r eternal contrary 2 evidence. U deny evidence they r all finite not eternal

@atheistcrow -Not at all, I agree that the universe was not always this size & its current composition. Do you think I said otherwise?

So then you believe that scientists r wrong in saying that time, matter and energy all began?

@atheistcrow -In line with current explanations in cosmology I understand the universe began approx 13.75 billion years ago as an expansion from an extremely compacted state. I do not consider supernatural agents relevant to physics.

When natural laws are broken, what do we call that if not supernatural?

@atheistcrow -I am not sure what you mean by natural laws or by them being broken. You have an example?

But where did the matter come from? And what was the reason for it’s unnaturally organized explosion? Physics laws violated.

@atheistcrow -what “unnaturally organised explosion” you’ve lost me there. What “laws” and in what way “violated”??

@atheistcrow -Where? In the context of the expansion of the universe I’m sure the logical co-ordinates of the starting point are 0,0,0 and t1.

I just explained it. If u say an “extremely compacted state”, you assume eternality.

To further unpack what I am saying, without the 140 character limitation, try this.  If time, matter and energy all came into existence at a moment, then what existed before that?  It’s an unanswerable question, because there is no “before” prior to the beginning of time.  That aside, what about matter and energy?  If they existed in an “extremely compacted state” just prior to the big bang, then they are eternal.  (Upon reflection, I should probably have said instead that they predated the beginning of time.)

So, either you agree with the inconvenient consensus of scientific thought – that there was a singularity – a beginning of all things – or you don’t.  So which is it?

@atheistcrow -Actually I think compacted does not mean the same as eternity… although you do keep trying to lever that word into your tweets.

@atheistcrow – I’m sure the ideas of cosmology are hard for non-scientists to grasp John. I’m perfectly happy with my rational approach.

@atheistcrow – what do you the “Before” means in “Before” space time existed?

See how @atheistcrow evades the main points and speaks to peripheral issues?  I think he must have gotten some tactics training on how to be an exasperating thorn in Christians’ sides somewhere.  I’ve seen it all before, so I am not perturbed.  But I do want to try one more time to get him to address the important questions.  Luke, as an atheist and a scientist:

  1. What do you believe about the origin of the universe.
  2. What do you believe about the origin of life?
  3. What do you believe about your death?  Will it be the end of you?

At the start of this exchange, you tweaked my question and answered something I did not really ask.  That’s OK.  I know you really have no other options.  You can’t admit that you can’t live without faith, because then you might have to actually examine the shaky foundations on which you have built your life thus far.   But take heart.  It’s not too late.  Jesus has overcome the world.

Jesus lived.  The evidence for that is overwhelming.  He changed the world not only by what he taught, but by the example he set for us all.  He said he “…came not to be served, but to serve, and to give my life as a ransom for many.”  I can find no fault in him or in what he taught or how he treated people.  None.  Can you name any other person, living or dead who comes anywhere close to that standard?  Or any other person that you would rather serve?

We all serve something or someone, even if its only ourselves.  Who or what we serve is the most important decision in life.  And that’s all true even if you don’t believe in a supernatural being, or heaven or hell.

I don’t want to win an argument with you.  I just want to suggest to you that there is a more excellent way to live.  And my thoughts and my prayers are with you.

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